Jehovah's witnesses: Providing a refuge for child rapists. While Disfellowshiping and shunning all who learn how to protect children from rape.
RayoFlight2014.
RayoFlight2014
JoinedPosts by RayoFlight2014
-
10
JWs, The WatchTower Society, Child Abuse and Disfellowshipping
by Simon insomething just struck me.. is the wts the only religion that won't kick people out for abusing children, but would kick you out for visiting a website that informs you that the wts won't kick people out for abusing children .... it really shows where their sensibilities lie.
they are more interested in acting as gatekeepers to information, especially information about them, than providing basic levels of protection to the children of their members.. maybe someone with a better turn of phrase can shorten it, it might make a good meme - something short and simple that really makes people think:.
"the wts - tougher on those who read reports of jw child abuse than on jws who conduct child abuse".
-
-
-
21
Take a Moment and Think About How Awesome You Are
by Simon init's easy to get bogged down with life and think you're not getting ahead or progressing.
but regardless of where we think things may be going, pretty much everyone who's come through this site is an achiever who's done an amazing thing in one way or another even if they may not think about it.. so think about it!.
you got past and over your programming and indoctrination.
-
-
RayoFlight2014
Diogenesister,
Thanks for that tidbit, I was unaware of the connection. 👍
One would hope that a support group along with professional therapy could be of benefit, only the individual who is affected by such affliction could say if it provides a positive outcome.
My thoughts had been more along the line of self introspection and positive change where one can make changes.😁
Regards,
RayoFlight2014.
-
21
Take a Moment and Think About How Awesome You Are
by Simon init's easy to get bogged down with life and think you're not getting ahead or progressing.
but regardless of where we think things may be going, pretty much everyone who's come through this site is an achiever who's done an amazing thing in one way or another even if they may not think about it.. so think about it!.
you got past and over your programming and indoctrination.
-
-
RayoFlight2014
Simon, this was such a beautiful topic and your words are healing for many who are in need of support.
I don't like to see long-term members on this site seemingly continue to wallow in the negative impacts of their having been JW's.
I hope they feel supported and proud of their personal achievement because this is what a recovery forum should be able to convey; a sense of self worth.
To any who are struggling to move on: keep coming back here, but also seek professional psychological help. If you still find yourself continuing on in a depressed or negative state of mind search out a second or third professional therapist until you find one who actually does work for your unique individual circumstance.....and makes you feel and know you're awsome, again.
Personally, I am very proud of my young 20 year-old self for making a very difficult decision that the 48 year old me is now reaping the benefits of, even though there were some devastating consequences and very hard times to deal with, I have made the best of a bad situation and turned it around through sheer determination, hard work and love.
I hope you all can take heart at my example; even the least intelligent and financially impeded one among you was able to make positive change to his life and now thrives.
The positives have far outweighed the negative impacts and consequences.
I refuse to dwell too long on what I cannot change, but instead try to have courage to change the things I can, and, in the word of Sinead O'Connor, the wisdom to know the difference.
Warm Regards to all,
RayoFlight2014.
-
30
The urgent, lifesaving work of Jehovah's witnesses......hardly!!
by RayoFlight2014 insince june 2016 i have kept a journal of my encounters with jehovah's witnesses at my door or in my street.
i'm a a nosey bastard and a bit of a home body when i'm not at work so i don't miss much of who comes past my home or knocks at the door.. will and dill.. they came to my door on a wednesday morning around 10:30am mid june 2016, i was on afternoon shift and had been reading bart ehrman "misquoting jesus".. what follows is the conversation as best i could recount after they left;.
of the two young gentlemen, dillon, the younger in appearance introduced will and himself, he then proceeded to present me with a brochure about world conditions supposedly getting worse.. me: i could stand at the door nodding in agreement if you like?
-
-
RayoFlight2014
05-October-2017
Another encounter, this time it was Will and an older gentleman by the name of Cliff who likes history, front wheel drive vehicles and has a 'Toy' open top car.
I asked Cliff where he thought the myth concerning the Greek god Zeus was copied from.
Cliff made the claim that the Greek myths of Zeus and such originated with the bible account of Nephilim, angels who cohabited with women.
He also left the book "Mankind's search for god".
It appears Will does not recognise me or remember our last conversation, and he said as much.
18-October-2017Cliff returned today and spoke about trinity, walking by sight and faith, bible timeline, 7 times, showed me a timeline chronology graph he had drawn up to show another h/h with 607bce as the date of the destruction of Jerusalem, and he mentioned returning with the booklet " gods word or mans?".
I told Cliff that I was doing a bit of religious research as a matter of academic interest and I didn't trust the bible as an authority but was interested in finding where the bible contains historical truth with verifiable proof.
He wasn't able to provide anything other than watchtower approved material, and when I told him his explanation wasn't to my satisfaction he proceeded to feign banging his head on the brick wall at my door.
I really didn't want to push him on his points although I could have, I felt it was better just to listen rather than comment without being proficient on the subject.
22-November-2017Cliff returned with the book; "gods word or mans?" Due to time constraints we were unable to converse other than general niceties.
22-December-2017
Cliff came around today with Damian? Where we discussed many subjects relative to Mormonism, Seventh day Adventists, Catholicism, integrity to truth, research methods and so on.
Now here's the interesting part:
Cliff asked me if I had any Questions I would like to ask before they left.
So I asked both of them if they knew what the Reasoning book had to say on page 200.
Their response was... no, so I suggested they try looking it up.
They both got their devices out and attempted to access the Reasoning book on jworg.
They were unsuccessful. I mentioned they may not be able to find it on jworg, perhaps it has gone out of print?
Me: Well guys, why don't you make a note; page 200. Reasoning from the scriptures. Let me know your thoughts on what it says there, after you've have time to ponder for yourselves, once you find it of course.
Cliff askes: Can you give me one or two words to describe the subject ?
Me: Last days....
We shook hands and then they were gone.
It will be interesting to see if Cliff has a truthful explanation for that little doozy.
05-January-2018
Cliff returned again, this time with a young lady. He announced he had done some research on my question regarding what the Reasoning book had to say about the last days, on page 200.
Me: Ok, great what is your take on it ?
Cliff: The watchtower has changed its view on the generation teaching as New Lite has been discovered that showed that the generations actually overlap.
Me: Well, then that could allow for the overlapping generation to potentially overlap indefinitely, and we would all be long dead before we could rightly say that the generation had in fact passed away.
Cliff: The generation that overlaps is limited to those who were born prior to 1914 and saw the events happen- And the lives of those who were born after 1914 but before the death of the last of the ones who saw those events.I'm getting up in years as you can see, therefore it cannot be long now.
Me: What then, if the new generation teaching is wrong?....and that overlapping generation does die?
Cliff: Then we have a problem...
Me: Time will tell Cliff.
But I suggest there is the very real possibility when the new generation teaching fails they will deny they ever taught that and make it sound as though it was a few rogue brothers or overly zealous ones who promoted such an erroneous teaching.-----At this point I was interrupted by my wife who doesn't like having Jws standing at our door for too long. Just in case the neighbours get the wrong idea we might be interested in becoming cult members.-----
So we shook hands again and they were gone.... I haven't had a visit since from the door to door lifesavers; the only Jws I have encountered thereafter are family and their friends who are nice people just like the rest of us.
And again, going by the frequency of the preaching work and methods used to present this 'good news' that no-one can remember, how can anyone proclaim it as a lifesaving urgent work??
RayoFlight2014.
-
4
shunning demonstration
by zeb iniam informed of a public anti-shunning demo coming up in melbourne,australia.. more info as i get it..
-
-
RayoFlight2014
The youtube video above explains some of the details and you can join the facebook group for more information.
I will be attending the event, not sure in what capacity, but I'll be there in support of those who are suffering because of watchtowers coercion of members to shun; even family members who no longer believe as they do or were disfellowshipped.
We all should be free to shun anyone we personally find to be toxic in our lives, but we should never be subject to undue influence and sanctions if we don't comply with a religious organisations arbitrary rules.
RayoFlight2014.
-
43
Did Russell come up with the no hell fire and no Trinity doctrine or did steal that belief from another religion as well?
by nowwhat? injust wondering hate to give the devil his due.
-
-
RayoFlight2014
What Vienne (Annie) said is so true.
We need to be careful not to get caught up in our emotions toward watchtower and spread false narratives or make bold claims that turn out to be just wrong.
We risk losing credibility if we're not careful to compare and contrast.
Personally it takes me a long time to trust someone if I find them putting forward an idea that is later proven wrong especially if they push the idea as indisputable.
I don't expect anyone to react any different from me if they find poorly researched bold accusations or statements, especially coming from opposers who likely are just fault finding to suit the narrative they want to portray.
Watchtower has enough verifiable dirt without us slinging unverified mud.
RayoFlight2014.
-
29
Activism works! Success!
by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara inwant to keep as short as possible, if any questions just ask.. just this weekend gone, i had two visitors (pimi single bros).they came round for a visit and a long chat.they had so many questions now that they have woken.
they are planning their fading(??
), one is an ministerial servant .
-
-
RayoFlight2014
That's a really nice approach Zing.
To be sure, no-one likes a rude awakening with someone banging on their door or giving reams of information when they are just coming out from slumber.
While these people are rubbing the sleep from their eyes the kind thing to do is to offer them a cuppa and something light which they can digest.
Well done!!
Regards,
RayoFlight2014.
-
30
The urgent, lifesaving work of Jehovah's witnesses......hardly!!
by RayoFlight2014 insince june 2016 i have kept a journal of my encounters with jehovah's witnesses at my door or in my street.
i'm a a nosey bastard and a bit of a home body when i'm not at work so i don't miss much of who comes past my home or knocks at the door.. will and dill.. they came to my door on a wednesday morning around 10:30am mid june 2016, i was on afternoon shift and had been reading bart ehrman "misquoting jesus".. what follows is the conversation as best i could recount after they left;.
of the two young gentlemen, dillon, the younger in appearance introduced will and himself, he then proceeded to present me with a brochure about world conditions supposedly getting worse.. me: i could stand at the door nodding in agreement if you like?
-
-
RayoFlight2014
Thanks to all so far for your responses.
It's very telling that we, all around the world, are seeing the same decline in knowledge, passion and regularity in the preaching work.
If I'm not mistaken, back in the 70's and 80's we felt and conveyed a sense of such urgency that was not only reflected in our coverage of the territory but also in the way it would annoy or upset the public.
These days most people have the police come to their door more often than the witnesses.
If you haven't lost interest in this topic, stay tuned for the next encounter that I will share as time permits. I personally found it interesting to say the least.
RayoFlight2014.
-
30
The urgent, lifesaving work of Jehovah's witnesses......hardly!!
by RayoFlight2014 insince june 2016 i have kept a journal of my encounters with jehovah's witnesses at my door or in my street.
i'm a a nosey bastard and a bit of a home body when i'm not at work so i don't miss much of who comes past my home or knocks at the door.. will and dill.. they came to my door on a wednesday morning around 10:30am mid june 2016, i was on afternoon shift and had been reading bart ehrman "misquoting jesus".. what follows is the conversation as best i could recount after they left;.
of the two young gentlemen, dillon, the younger in appearance introduced will and himself, he then proceeded to present me with a brochure about world conditions supposedly getting worse.. me: i could stand at the door nodding in agreement if you like?
-
-
RayoFlight2014
Hi tiki,
Indeed I was flabbergasted they didn't know of Fred Franz, these guys were between 27 and 35 years old.
In saying that I had never heard of Ray Franz until 2014, when I was trying to find information on when Fred Franz was in Australia at the Sydney, Warwick farm racecourse.
The small amount of preaching work they do is so unconvincing anyways, if you listen to their message it's hard to imagine anyone having their interest piqued. "Wow... tell me more about this god of love who allows paedophiles to have their way with children , and not just heathen children but also god fearing little ones who pray and plead with god to make it stop."
I think next Generation are becoming increasingly aware; we can no longer make bold statements without the listener saying " evidence, please " or just googling for themselves.
RayoFlight2014.
-
30
The urgent, lifesaving work of Jehovah's witnesses......hardly!!
by RayoFlight2014 insince june 2016 i have kept a journal of my encounters with jehovah's witnesses at my door or in my street.
i'm a a nosey bastard and a bit of a home body when i'm not at work so i don't miss much of who comes past my home or knocks at the door.. will and dill.. they came to my door on a wednesday morning around 10:30am mid june 2016, i was on afternoon shift and had been reading bart ehrman "misquoting jesus".. what follows is the conversation as best i could recount after they left;.
of the two young gentlemen, dillon, the younger in appearance introduced will and himself, he then proceeded to present me with a brochure about world conditions supposedly getting worse.. me: i could stand at the door nodding in agreement if you like?
-
-
RayoFlight2014
Since June 2016 I have kept a journal of my encounters with Jehovah's witnesses at my door or in my Street.
I'm a a nosey bastard and a bit of a home body when I'm not at work so I don't miss much of who comes past my home or knocks at the door.
Will and Dill.
They came to my door on a Wednesday morning around 10:30am Mid June 2016, I was on afternoon shift and had been reading Bart Ehrman "Misquoting Jesus".
What follows is the conversation as best I could recount after they left;
Of the two young gentlemen, Dillon, the younger in appearance introduced Will and himself, he then proceeded to present me with a brochure about world conditions supposedly getting worse.
Me: I could stand at the door nodding in agreement if you like? But I don't agree...
Will and Dillon: No, No, we don't want you to do that!
Me: okay then, let's be clear, I do not believe that brochure to be correct, in fact it couldn't be more wrong.....what century would you like to show me that was better?
Will: Well, its a lot harder now to know who the enemy is and the wars are so complex!
Me: I agree that the complexities of modern warfare makes it difficult to know who and where the enemy is and how to protect ourselves, but rhat in and of itself does not provide evidence of worsening wars; either in their frequency or severity.
Also advances in medicine and its practice, humanitarian endeavors, global awareness and an overall majority wanting fair and peaceful outcomes makes for a much better and improving world conditions, not worsening.
Will and Dillon: ( silence).....
Me: Look guys, I want the truth, and that brochures statement is simply not truth; its content is typical of an organization that insists on giving a negative and deceptive portrayal of world conditions to support its own faulty worldview and teachings. If you value truth and want the facts, do your own research on the subject.
Will: Everything I read in Watchtower I compare with the bible and so far it all matches up.
Me: Well, the bible itself has its own dubious history, I suggest you have a read of " Misquoting Jesus " by Bart Ehrman.
Not only does watchtower project a negative worldview it indoctrinates its members to have a negative view of the non-believers who are to be destroyed at Armageddon if they don't respond to the message at the door. Da'd and Df'd ex jws are to be shunned and treated as if dead.
Will: No, we're not taught to view and treat people that way.
Me: Have you been to the latest convention?
Will and Dillon: Yes.
Me: Then you would have seen the video depicting a daughter that gets disfellowshiped and consequently shunned by her parents who are following the directive given by watchtowers interpretation of scripture.
Will: I don't recall that?
Jehovah's witnesses have made adjustments in the past such as we used to celebrate Christmas etc but changed as new thinking was revealed.
Me: Have either of you heard of Ray Franz?
Will and Dillon: Nope, who is he?
Me: The nephew of Fredrick Franz.
Will and Dillon: eh,... who is Fredrick Franz?
Me: He was a member of the governing body and the president of the Watchtower society; he died in 1992. His nephew, Ray Franz, was a member of the governing body too. After Ray was disfellowshiped he wrote a book called " Crisis of Conscience ", I encourage both of you to read it.
Will: Oh....No.... we don't read literature from people who used to be Jehovah's witnesses.
Me: Well, how can you find out the other side to the story if you refuse to examine it? How will you find the truth? You know what? - The greatest obstical to finding truth is believing you already have it.
Will: why was he disfellowshiped?
Me: He was disfellowshiped for going against a new directive by watchtower to shun a disassociated person; he had a meal with a Da'd friend who also happened to be his landlord and employer.
-- Our conversation took several turns after that and I suggested that looking at jwfacts.com online would be a good place for them to do some research.
They expressed the need to move on, so we shook hands and thanked each other for the conversation....then they were gone...
I felt they were either not being honest or they were very oblivious to the facts.
My next encounter with the witnesses was just over a year later, in July 2017, with a brief invite to the 2017 " don't give up " convention.
So much for the urgent work!
October 2017 was the next encounter, and I will share that with you all soon....sooner than Armageddon.
RayoFlight2014.